Bill Bennett Says Opioid Overprescribing A Myth: Illegal Drugs Are The Problem

Bill Bennett Says Opioid Overprescribing A Myth: Illegal Drugs Are The Problem

Conservative radio and TV personality Mark Levin had former Secretary of Education, and former Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, Bill Bennett, on his “Life Liberty and Levin” television show on Fox News on Sunday night. The two spoke on many topics, including one that is of interest to our audience – opioids, marijuana and the differences between legal and illegal use of the drugs.

The following is a transcript from part of their conversation. The full transcript can be found here.

Note: Emphasis added.

LEVIN: We have this horrific opioid epidemic and it is an epidemic, isn’t it?

BENNETT: Yes, it is. We were right. We — President George Herbert Walker Bush took this one really seriously back to me when I needed him to and the country took it seriously. It was the number one issue and we focused on it and one of the most widely circulating myths and lies is that we lost that war. We didn’t —

Drug use in the United States, illegal drug use from 1979 to 1992 went down by more than 50%. We pushed back and when we pushed back, it went down. It went down dramatically. This was a push by government, by the administration and I was happy to be there. This was a push in Colombia, thanks to Delta Force and some other folks, the brave Colombian people. The media was actually good and cooperative. You’re old enough to remember the ads jumping off the diving board into an empty swimming pool, this is your brain on drugs. Fried eggs. And the country took it seriously.

What we’re in now is worse by the numbers. The number of people who died from cocaine crack maybe 10,000. Last year, we lost 70,000 people to illegal drugs and another myth, people think most of this is because doctors are over prescribing. It’s not true. There are some over subscribing, obviously, there are some pill mills, but three-quarters of the deaths are from fentanyl, street stuff heroin and of the people who die from overdoses from OxyContin and other prescribed drugs, these are people who get them illegally or by stealing them from people who were prescribed.

So it’s the illegal problem we have got to deal with and we’ve got to attack it head-on and it’s now very much as I’ve said to folks in the administration, a lot of this is Trump country. You know, the people who supported Donald Trump, rural America, West Virginia, rural Ohio — it’s not just there, but it’s a more serious problem than what we had in the late 80s and we took that very seriously front and center. We’ve got to do the same and what doesn’t help, Mark is this effort to get marijuana everywhere. It’s just crazy.

C.S. Lewis says, you know, when the boat is sinking from water, don’t grab for the fire hoses and we are — not everybody who smokes marijuana goes on to other things, but very few people who get into these other drugs — fentanyl or other stuff — didn’t start with marijuana. That’s where it starts.

Take a look at Colorado. Take a look at the driving deaths. Take a look at the scores, I believe in a few years, the academic scores. Take a look at the quality of life in Denver and this is what we’re pushing and we’ve had some Republicans pushing this, too.

LEVIN: The former Speaker of the House.

BENNETT: Yes, sir, John Boehner signed that.

LEVIN: Did that surprise you when he left Congress and then joined that organization promoting?

BENNETT: I’m happy to say it did surprise me in the sense that I thought I’d lost the capacity to be surprised anymore or shocked, you know, but yes, it did. It really did. There’s a lot of money in that, a lot of money in this stuff.

And by the way, the marijuana that people are smoking today in Colorado is not the marijuana of the late 60s. Three, two, three percent tetrahydrocannabinol. In the late 60s early 70s, today average in Colorado maybe 20% to 25%. It’s a difference between a light beer and a slug of much —

LEVIN: So it’s much more potent.

BENNETT: Much more potent, much more powerful. Maureen Dowd of the “New York Times” wrote a column about going to Colorado and chewing a marijuana candy bar and wrote in her column, “I thought I had died after a couple of bites.” She had to then apologize with a couple of subsequent columns because they got on her, but the stuff is potent and dangerous.

And one thing we know for sure from the science, my former drug czar, my former Secretary of Education speaking here, for young people, it harms and can destroy focus, attention and memory. Are they important in school? Are they important in growing up? Focus and attention? Are they important on the job?

LEVIN: Not if you’re going into journalism.


LEVIN: Let me ask you this — it is spreading and it’s becoming popular even among Republican politicians.

BENNETT: It’s popular in public opinion polls, people favor it. Can I tell you why? The medical marijuana thing was very smart. I have the pictures of these children who are having bouts of epilepsy and the cannabinol helps them calm down. True in a few cases. True in some cases. You can do that without administering a cigarette, a marijuana cigarette.

As a doctor said to me, just step back from it and think about it. Does anybody really believe that he’d get a bunch of dry leaves, light them on fire, inhale them and that’s good for you? Can anybody seriously believe that? So the medical marijuana, Trojan horse. It brought out everybody’s sympathy and from that, we’ve gone to this general recreational marijuana.

But you know, the final argument is do you want to live in a country where half the people around you are buzzed all the time? And if you sat with people who are stoned, you can’t really have a conversation with them because they’re laughing all the time or you know, they are somewhere else.

LEVIN: Well, luckily I don’t live in that world, at least not yet.

End of transcript.

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Katie Olmstead

Lots to chew over here but one detail makes it clear how much [edit] there is here. (and there were some valid points, too)

“Maureen Dowd of the “New York Times” wrote a column about going to Colorado and chewing a marijuana candy bar and wrote in her column, “I thought I had died after a couple of bites.”

Excuse me. You don’t get high after a couple of bites. This is idiotic. If you are taking an edible, it takes a couple of hours to feel any effects.

Suzanne Joyce

Mr. Bennett is correct. Doctor prescribed and monitored pain pills are rarely a problem. Illegal drugs are as well as doctors who over-prescribe and do not monitor usage of pain pills. Also, patients need to inform their doctors as to what works, in what dosages, and what does not work.

Kurt WG Matthies

Yes, Mr Bennett made some embarrassingly ignorant statements about cannabis.

But I’m happy to hear him actively debunking the myth that opioid medical treatment of chronic pain is causing this so-called “opioid epidemic.”

Here’s another myth fostered in the many houses of government around this country — cannabis is a safe and inexpensive substitute for opioids in the treatment of chronic pain.

I celebrate with those who’s symptoms are improved through the use of marijuana. I say, wonderful for you. Use of cannabis is now legal 33 states, according to It should be legal in all 50, and worldwide, in my opinion.

But here’s what’s important to me, as a person living with daily chronic pain — we must stop persecuting people in pain, and leave the treatment of pain to those who are best trained in those modalities. The government, the press, and public opinion have no business in determining effective medications and doses for the treatment of any disease.

Choosing an opioid pain medication, and its dose for the effective treatment of chronic pain is a decision best left to the patient and their physician, and no one else.


The government believes drugs are a scurge in our land. So for every person who is now stigmatized because of his or her pain I have a small remedy. The insurance companies can pay for everyone diagnosed with any chronic pain a free of charge whirlpool and private PT to ease the stigma of being labled a drug seeker. How funny that term. I mean any person who is in pain will SEEK a way to extinguish it . Right? So so interesting!


I read that interview with Bill Bennett and Marc . Although a Levine advocate, I think he had better stick to what he’s good at, and medical cannabis is not one of his strong points. Then to here Bennett show his ignorance of cannabi, really popped open my eyes and got my “educated fools”/ biphoonery; bubbbling. To listen to a public official who is living in the 1950’s world of fear mongering was very disillusioning. When they were comparing strength of cannabis ,it was hilarious. It was trying to compare 3.2% beer to the beers that go as far as 9% today. You cant go through your day without seeing some form of alcohol promotion. I don’t know why they don’t allow the public to promote cannabis and then turn around and fine us for using it. That’s what they do with alcohol, but they use the slogan, Drink responsibly, what ever that means. Maybe we could all just use responsibly!


Judie P. makes an excellent and accurate point about “drug addicts” vs. chronic pain patients: the former uses drugs to run away from life for a while, while pain patients take medication to relieve pain in order to participate in life for a while”. I cannot think of a clearer way to differentiate between the two and, like her, I don’t see why it is so difficult for policymakers to understand that!

Alice Carroll

I’d much rather be with laughing people having a good time then the narcissistic, hateful, money-worshiping so called leaders of this country.

T. Negrete

I started using marijuana products after the Government went into the business of taking Opioids away from us Chronic Pain Patients. Yes, the marijuana of today is not like it was in the 1970’s & 80’s. I have a difficult time functioning with marijuana. I don’t like the side effects either. Besides, marijuana is expensive and one day I won’t be able to afford it. I would prefer to go back on the medication that was working for my pain so I could get more done!


Judie Plumley makes a solid point in the comment that drug addiction is a Mental issue.
Many people are weak and are easily addicted and just want a easy way to escape the reality that is their life. Why their lives are so miserable and empty of promise is a whole different discussion. I do agree with her that the “just say no ” idea is nothing but a joke.
I however have to disagree with the Medical Cannabis and recreational is all well and good.
The strong edibles that are being sold are out of control. they are selling 120 mg and 240 mg chocolate bars in Arizona under the medical cannabis law. The kicker is these highly potent edibles don’t count very much against your allowed two ounce every two week limit. They just take the weight of the candy bar and ignore how potent it is under current law.
What happens is some Medial cannabis card holders but their limit and then sell too other who don’t have the card. The abuse is rampant and where DEA should focus on instead of legit chronic pain patients and doctors that treat them. Big money is in the medical and recreational
cannabis business with states getting big Tax collections out of it. They are looking the other way as this goes on and instead pointing the finger at CPP’s and their Doctors. total disgrace!!

He is so far away from a pain patients perspective that I honestly think his own opinions do not belong on NPR now that we are just trying to stay alive as long as we can. Bottom line these different time different place statements are hurtful to people who have weeks and months left due to no fault of our own! Maybe it is me but Surprisingly not helpful.


Actually he has a point about the Medical marijuana and legal recreational weed. The strains they are selling are much more potent than in the past. on top of that they are selling super concentrated oil and edibles like gummy candies and cookies that pack a huge punch.
Children can get a hold of these Marijuana candies and be severely impacted.
The regulation needs to play catch up and put a stop to these high powered edibles and I’m sure it will in time after the damage is done and is very apparent to everyone except the industry leaders who are profiting from it.
Blaming Doctors for over prescribing opiates may have been true 5 years ago but that has all changed. it is a very controlled process for patients and Doctors with reports from the state that show what Dr’s prescribe and were patient scripts were filled.
Pill mills made a splash five years ago and executive at pharmacies and drug companies diverted inventory to these pill mill operations for profit and gain. that has for the most part been shut down. Now the Government is just attacking innocent Chronic pain patients and the Doctors who care for them. It’s a real shame on America on how our law enforcement and DEA is treating senior’s and others who suffer from chronic pain.

Just Stop

Thank you for reporting on this! So glad that someone with his experience is speaking the truth about what the REAL crisis is…illegal drugs and illegally obtained drugs!
He knows -why isn’t this front page news?
Doctors are the wrong target, and patients with real pain aren’t criminals..they are suffering real harm now.
This could really change the narrative once and for all…..! This is the kind of truth telling and advocacy we need right now.

We now have 2 former Drug Czars coming forward with concerns ..Michael Botticelli signed on along with over 300 health professionals to voice concerns about the CDC Guidelines, and now Bill Bennett saying the over prescription narrative is a myth.
Real patients are being harmed by misguided policies..we can’t wait any longer…the bodies are stacking up too fast!


Well I finally hit the wall like many of you have described. I pulled into my friendly pharmacy where I have gone exclusively for a decade or more, to pick up a pain prescription I have used for years, only to be told it didn’t get ordered in time to come in today. Could I have a partial refill I asked. Oh no, not for a controlled med she said. But I come here every month, you’ve given me partial refills before I tried to say nicely. I called this morning to confirm I would pick it up this afternoon, nothing said about it then.

I have struggled with osteoarthritis for years, fibromyalgia for years. It is with me all day, during the night. What is this world coming to? I feel like a speck of dust, swept aside.


Well God forbid we should live in a world where people are laughing all the time !! HAHAHA


Ok, let’s dissect this interview a little. The first red flags; a Fox (not) News commentator and a former director of National Drug Control. Both of them are anti drug zealots whose ignorance about marijuana is truly amazing. I was pleasantly surprised that he was able to tell the truth about the opioid epidemic, but, the rest of the interview was pure drivel.
Unfortunately, he still believes the war on drugs can be won even though human beings have been altering their consciousness forever. That’s not going to change, all we can do is educate people and let them make their own individual choices.


Yes. As a chronic pain patient I have had to account for thousands of controlled pharmaceuticals. 18 years, every pill and submit to mandatory urine tests every 8 weeks. Granted, I did not have to test so often in the beginning. Once a year, even with insurance, the law requires a $700.00 test. Why?? If you cannot account or pass screening then you are excused from the practice. I followed the rules.
Recently I moved from Georgia home to Indiana. I was unable to be seen by a rheumatologist due to a records transfer. Even after the records were transferred I had to wait for an appointment. I’m still waiting 3 months later.
Unfortunately, after being beaten (twice) and taken to the hospital I was seen as “drug seeking “. No Sir, I am seeking medical help. Fortunately, after the second attack I was transported to a different hospital. The ER doctor on call runs a Suboxone clinic. He was extremely educated, intelligent and saved my life. I was in cold withdrawal and very I’ll. Leave us compliant people alone. Concentrate your efforts on the REAL problem.

exactly. even doctors believe the fake news about prescription opiods causing the problems. it’s the street drugs. Politicians and Gov. are just trying to gather public support by looking at the issue in a false way and spreading hysteria that hurts people in pain. shame on them all.

S Richardson

I’ve known this since day one


Judy is right on! There is a vast difference between taking opiates to get high and taking them to function, usually still with a level of pain, something the “experts” seem to miss utterly. I question the integrity and the intelligence of the so-called “experts.”

Just an aside, I read that the CDC uses addicts to rate the “addictiveness” of drugs. Talk about unscientific!


I’ve taken pain meds for over 20 years. I’am given a certain amount each month and my wife gives them to me everyday, i had mine stolen before, now they are locked up and given to me in the morning and before i go to bed. I see a real Doctor every month, not a street Doctor !!!! i’ve had two failed back surgeries, Brain Surgery, Aortic-Fermural-ByPass and four Ulner Nerve Surgeries. All these people abuseing pain meds are making it bad on me and alot of other Senior Citizens suffering with Chronic-Pain !!!! It is not fun.


“do you want to live in a country where half the people around you are buzzed all the time?”

Um, has this schmuck never heard of alcohol & alcoholics? Of which there are far, far more than ALL opioid users, illegal & legal, combined.

Billie McCurdy

I have chronic diseases unbearable pain.lll. Yet they’re taking the pain medication away all because people on the street abused it. I do not smoke marijuana never dried it don’t want to. I just want the government to quit playing with my life. Since the doctors have had to cut down on doses now I’m like a vegetable in bed. No quality of life. Cannot spend time with my family our grandchildren because just to touch my body it hurts. How about the go vernment work on getting illegal drugs off the street and quit Messing with the people that have diseases that need the right medication. Marijuana is being used by big business to make money they don’t care about the ill. I do understand that it helps children with seizures which is fine if it is done with a doctor’s supervision. But for all those who just want to get high and have no health issues you are the ones hurting those that have real illness and they’re dying just because you want to get high. People have lost all Humanity for others that are ill.
The problem is street drugs not what pain management doctors prescribe for patients who really need it. So leave us alone and stop all the illegal drugs coming into the country. It’s a simple solution. But money talks and b******* walks

He sounds like Jeff Sessions!

Another thing to this uneducated over hyped Jeff Sessions think a like! Anyone can google this or Facebook this beautiful, vibrant, beautiful miracle going by Brave Mykayla from Oregon! She was 7 years old with brutal childhood cancer! Anyone who knows about childhood cancer knows the odds are horrible. Chemo had her very sick. Her mom put her on high levels of THC! Oh she was challenged legally even by her own husband saying the girl was “stoned” because you know it’s better she suffer in a hospital bed vs playing outside on a swing like shown in the show Weedediquette. To many peoples shocking surprise the girl is alive today and doing excellent 7 years later at 14 years old. THC alone has at least 15 medical benefits now known. He sounds about marijuana like those that hate on opiates saying people sound slurring or slow on them. There is no difference! It is all judgement! Just because something doesn’t appeal to you doesn’t give you the right to lie about it! I have been thrilled with the recent success with opiate taper like in Oregon having recent success and hearing the DEA say they will put more in supply although I’d never trust the DEA. I’m all in support of stopping this BS re opiate medication but he is very wrong especially to attack a medical plant that the DEA has kept wrongfully from studies! If any rates went up in Colorado maybe it’s because a significant migration resulting in a much larger population! If Federal legal this wouldn’t be the case. I recognize abuse by teens isn’t good but that is with anything. As with all things being responsible and moderation is important.

Stop making it opiates vs hate on marijuana!

What! This guy is a out of line! He has one thing right that the opiate crisis is overkill and I been heavily effected by it. I’m sick of repeating it. I will say this when they pulled all my pain meds cold turkey due to the DEA/CDC bs! I was left to suffer in cancer pain right when it come back! Did I turn to heroin? No! I suffered for a year and a half then gave in to try medical grade marijuana he is talking trash about! Confirmed with a MRI - two metastatic tumors gone! Why is it worse now = I got batches of the blood pressure medication recalled by FDA due to contamination of straight carcinogenics “cancer tumor causing agent” at the time I began marijuana and the tumors that metastasized were gone hospice home health was able to leave due to improvement. I have been and always will be a huge supporter to bring back opiates for people but all these lies on marijuana is ridiculous! Another thing drug use fell from 1979-1992? Prohibition has never worked! The war on drugs period is a failure!!! First 1979 drugs would be at an all time high then comes Reagan which I like but his drug policy “just say no” another failure but why during the above years would use fall. Let’s look.. The number of people behind bars for nonviolent drug law offenses increased from 50,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 by 1997. So at what cost! Prison time and criminal records for a health crisis which Portugal has proved decriminalization to be effective but why doesn’t America see it…$$$!!! The DEA would be out of work! The DEA has had to remove 23 of 25 lies on marijuana including the “gateway theory”! Anyone can take things and turn it to their on self serving facts. Look at 1991-2013 at the steady incline in hydrocodone/oxycodone rx wrote in the millions at the steady incline! No one can deny marijuana regardless the amount of THC has never killed anyone! Unlike cigarettes, alcohol to most every other drug including FDA approved meds with many side effects inc death!

Denise Bault

Bennett is a moron. He needs to become educated about medical marijuana!


I agree with John below.
They are still pumping out the old propaganda. And yes, not only drug dealers make $$$ off these wars against people’s freedoms. Drug wars are flat out attacks on the citizens.

I don’t like pot myself. It doesn’t work for my pain and it leaves me feeling weird. I watched people in the 60’s-70’s get so out of it they just laid around. I know it suppressed my emotional growth and other growth. But I quit it when it got to be no fun at all.

I’m not saying it doesn’t work for others, every body is different.

Leave to the state propaganda “news” channel to give us another taste of the old intolerance.
By the way, my state just legalized the stuff.
IMO, that’s the ONLY way to get it under control; maybe generate some tax revenue as well.

Comparing pot to Fentanyl is ludicrous


Glad about his opioid comments, but his marijuana comments seem extremely wrong. Alcohol is legal and so what’s the diff making marijuana also available in terms of people going around buzzed. And, mj overdoses can’t kill you while alcohol can.

Matt Smith

Prohibition ISN’T the answer, education IS…. We don’t need PROPaganda type “education” about drugs, a la “refer madness” or “fried eggs”, just give people the truth about potency, effects on young developing brains, and individuals potential genetic predisposition towards addiction, etc…. Marijuana is no more of a “stepping stone” than alcohol, and substantially less dangerous.
THE ONLY THING they got right in this conversation is that the OD deaths & drug’s out there now come from the illegal drug trade and counterfeit pills in conjunction with the increase in fentanyl is what is causing all these serious issues….chemicals /drugs can be good or bad, depending on how they are used, but let educated citizens make their own educated decisions about what their body needs.


No bill its popular because we are sick and tired of lies. We dont roll over like people did in the 50s.


I only took opiods for 2 yrs I had to retire from airlines job after 15 yrs because of chronic pain and fatigue. I did not know anything about opiods maybe if I had them I could have worked for several more yrs. My pain so bad I’m ready to go. Moved from TX to home in VA. Two yrs later Dr gave me opiods, within 45-60 minutes I could not believe how I felt I could get up and do things like going to store 3 min away doing housework etc. They took them away of course now back to same but getting worse. I just spent 2 1/2 days in bed because I had just little pain did not eat but had water. I don’t think it’s right to make me and others who are probably worse than me to suffer. Two other days when I woke I was upset thinking oh not another day, going to bed several times I hoped I would not wake. I don’t know how much longer I can take this, but I do have a back up plan. Suppose to go to 2 different Drs next 2 days and been worrying if I can make it. Sitting for 2 hrs the pain gets worse Drs are an HR each way tomorrow is pain mgt Dr for injections. I’m single talked to county where I live hoping to get house work help. Bad when u can’t vacuum just small living room I have to go to bed on stomach can’t lay on sofa due to pain. I’m 63 I know I’m getting older but so called friends can go and do since I can’t I don’t see anyone. Sorry didn’t mean to say this much. If anyone reads this and u or someone u know has chronic fatigue on Amazon doc by a PhD, which has gone around the world tells a lot!!! It called “UNREST” plz watch. Got to go just this has worsened me have to tell myself to breathe because of thinking and pain please watch unrest it’s says alot about a lot of different things wish govt people could be in my body for 2 days use to say 2 hrs don’t want anyone to suffer


We might believe you if you relate it all to booze and gambling.
Let’s make them illegal.
You’d be locked up if we did.
Jesus ,


Driving deaths in Co up,LIE. That’s just one point. I’ll read more later. I’ll have to take breaks in between throwing up.
I’ll simply say 1. A regulated pot system in legal state
TRUTH teen use is down.FACT,
Anyway arent you missing your shuffleboard lesson with pete sessions??????

Cheri Furr

Thank you!!


Well ,I believe to each is own !
But I certainly respect ,this opinion, this man has served his country, with fact,and PRIDE !
UNFORTUNATELY, PAIN NEEDS TREATMENT,YOU HAVE TO BE IT TO SEE IT ! GO GET ,the hard street drugs,no questions about their harm to society . BUT FOR ALL IN PAIN I HOPE YOU FIND AN ANSWER !

John Thomas

It’s great we still have a few dinosaurs around to tell us the crazy things people used to think about near harmless marijuana.

Carl Dunn

This writer is correct on the part about the terrible effects smoking pot has on the youth, but misses the point on the reduction of opiates use in states that adopted medical or recreational legal marijuana use. Plus there are two types of marijuana, one for anxiety and other mental conditions, one for pain. Indica and sativa. It really sounds like the uniformed opinion of someone who hasn’t done their homework and is relying on anecdotal information. I am in my sixties and would gladly use edibles for pain relief and some anxiety issues rather than turn to opiates any day, anytime. I have relied on pain meds for thirty years to function, and have smoked pot as a youth and yes I agree it does affect learning abilities, and the rest of those issues affecting mental acuity in the young. However, I am old now and would really appreciate a writer who has some experience and real knowledge of the subject than one who spouts his own opinions.

Gary Raymond

Oxycontin and Fentanyl must be manufactured. Pharmaceutical companies are the source of the problem. Not the doctors who are abiding by the law. Not the patients who are abiding by the law. Not the pharmacists who are abiding by the law. Only in America are law-abiding people persecuted. How many people have died of the flu this season? The CDC has not released suicide numbers for 3 years. Abolish and replace the CDC. By the way, why is Wells Fargo Bank still in business?

Judie Plumley

I think the gentleman has got it mostly wrong. I was married to an addict, In fact, since 1980, I have been surrounded by them.
All of them started out as kids, bored and unsupervised, stealing everything from booze to pills to pot just to have a good time. I lived in public housing in North Mississippi.
There were those of us who tried drugs, but we did not become addicts, and there were a lot who did. Most of them are dead now.
Addiction is a mental illness, and it is not limited to alcohol and drugs. Addiction is the want and need for something to the extent it takes over better judgement. It’s that kind of addiction that ruins lives.
People do become physically addicted to drugs, but that is totally different. That can be dealt with easily because your mind is not fighting against you.
Being in pain puts the need for drugs in a whole other ballgame. It’s the motive and how you see things. Whereas an addict does drugs to get high, to run away from life for awhile, a pain patient takes drugs to relieve pain so they can participate in life for awhile. Why on earth can’t these people see that?
So far as marijuana, the senerio portrayed in this article is so mainstream “just say no” era, it’s laughable. It reminds me of the movie “Up in Smoke”. The columnist Bennett speaks of just goes and eats a candy bar and it whiped them out? Well, sure it did. No matter what element you put in your body: alcohol, pot, or medication, if you aren’t used to it and if you don’t know what you are doing, you are likely to use too much.
The people I know who use Cannabis for medical reasons are not chasing the high. They aren’t using until they are zonked. They are trying to fix something very wrong in their lives and make it livable. Isn’t that the reason we have drugs, to make us better?
No, I don’t agree with him at all.